Posts by Separation of Powers

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

I have read many post on this forum and found that very few people are truly "bitter." Some simply want to share their experience and reflect on how it has affected their lives. Others vent, sure, but they are content with where they are in life. Others, well, others cannot get past their experience. I, for one, do not blame them.

It is akin to a romantic relationship, an "all-in" relationship where you put your heart on the line. When it ends, some say, "well, if that person doesn't love me anymore, than I will move on. I would rather be happy alone then miserable with someone." Others might say, "There is no way that you are going to leave me without regretting it! I will make your life miserable!" Same relationship, same scenario, different perception, different reaction.

Anyone raised in or around the organization is expected to be "all in." It affects every aspect of your life and every decision you make. When you find that it's time to leave, or it has left you, than your reaction will be just that....a reaction, your reaction. No one on this forum can take that away from you cause it is "your experience." To question the validity or basis of your reaction, to condemn or demean it whether calm or bitter, is to devalue your unique experience... and no one...no one has that right.

SOP

64

2 she-bears kill 42 children

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

we all remember this passage vividly: from there elisha went up to bethel.

while he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.

"go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!

Separation of Powers

One of the most horrifying accounts I can recall from my childhood, listening to a CO as he spoke to the young people about this account and our need to respect the "arrangement." The main point I remember from his talk, and mind you this was close to 40 years ago, was that these 42 rebellious, obnoxious, and disrespectful children were the kids of the elite "sons of the Prophets" mentioned in 2 Kings. He went on to drive home the point to the elders in the congregation that they needed to really keep a tight rein on their kids lest they become like these 42 and Jehovah decides to destroy them in the same brutal manner cause "they should know better than others in the hall!"

What a childhood! From the Paradise Book with people falling in caverns that God's wrath creates and Nimrod looking all freakey evil on his throne to talks like that....you gotta love it!

SOP

21

The Fake "Joy" Of Jehovah's Witnesses

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you observe this "joy" when you see witnesses going from house to house, in the kingdom halls, out working, or during theocratic wholesome recreational activities?.

.

Separation of Powers

I have always appreciated the organization's position that "joy" is an outward expression of an internal condition. If that is the case, then there sure are a lot of people who need to have their "innards" checked! I have not seen any evidence of "joy" for quite some time, and those that profess to be "joyful" are as duplicitous and disingenuous as they come! A false joy is simply evidence of a false hope!

SOP

26

No more district assemblies in Tri-Cities. News article

by Indian Larry in

for years the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses has held a regional convention in the tri-cities, attracting about 16,000 of the faithful who spend an estimated $8.6 million while in town.. .

but they won't be coming in 2014.. "what they told me is the decision has been made nationally to downsize the number of conventions from 400 to 100. they're simply consolidating," said kris watkins, president and ceo of the tri-cities visitor & convention bureau in kennewick.. .

read more here: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/08/01/2500842/jehovahs-witnesses-convention.html#storylink=cpy .

Separation of Powers

Good point Sir82 My comment refers to the current District Convention arrangement being phased out. If the information provided by the source, i.e. that the process will go from 400 to 100 is true, than there is something to the economic aspect of the process which, according to your position, doesn't add up. If the current district convention arrangement is the single biggest money maker, which I believe was the case many years ago, than if would be the epitome of foolishness to ever mess with it! If, however, the intent is to rein in the process, i.e. minimize the amount of venues that have to be acquired and paid for and utilize only Society owned facilities, than how would one go about meeting that need. Currently, most circuit assembly venues are booked from September through May-June. The current process does not afford enough time in the calendar to address the addition of another round of district conventions to be held in those facilities. The math does not add up. With regard to contributions on the district level, what was once a good 100K per assembly is considerably lower...considerably. The inability to charge for parking was the first hit. Additionally, the presence of debit and credit card contributions is testament as well as this capability went against the prior mentality of ensuring that the public did not feel "compelled" to give. Now, however, the lack of contributions has required that adjustments be made. SOP

26

No more district assemblies in Tri-Cities. News article

by Indian Larry in

for years the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses has held a regional convention in the tri-cities, attracting about 16,000 of the faithful who spend an estimated $8.6 million while in town.. .

but they won't be coming in 2014.. "what they told me is the decision has been made nationally to downsize the number of conventions from 400 to 100. they're simply consolidating," said kris watkins, president and ceo of the tri-cities visitor & convention bureau in kennewick.. .

read more here: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/08/01/2500842/jehovahs-witnesses-convention.html#storylink=cpy .

Separation of Powers

Consolidating 400 to 100 seems like a logistical nightmare! Assuming that 5000 people attend each assembly, that would total about 2 million people for the 400 assemblies, oh excuse me, conventions. If those 2 million people were "consolidated" to 100 conventions, that would require a venue that could accommodate 20 thousand people! That, my friends, is a huge crowd, reminiscent of the pre-78 conventions. What a nightmare! If this is true, then the conventions are not bringing in the contributions to justify the effort. The current convention strategy is smaller, less active venues, where 4-7 thousand can attend. They are typically held in summer months when business conventions are in "sleep mode" and when the only real competition for space is boat shows, tattoo expos, gun shows or home and garden events. Therefore, the venues can be acquired for less than top dollar. I am expecting that the district convention arrangement will be phased out. Yes, it will be done in the spirit of simplification. It is too time consuming for the teaching committee and the return on the investment is simply not there. With the new and improved website, any new publications will be presented, or better still, at the circuit assembly where trucking and delivery concerns, venue, and accessible debit or credit card machines are available. SOP

27

How To Be Subversive While Knowing TTATT And Stuck Inside The Watchtower Corporation Confines?

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

so you found out it is all bs but due to family and friends you don't want to be disfellowshipped and shunned.

you have to go to these rediculous meetings maybe even engage in corporation sponsored magazine drives to get the propaganda into the homes of your neighbor in hopes of making another corporation zombie mystified by childish magical thinking, of a jealous deity that wants you to work for the corporation finacial interest or else die for your lack of corporation loyalty.. it is a stressful sitiuation with all kinds of trip wires one has to beware of in order not to be heading into some back room kangaroo court where obediance to the almighty corporation is the bottom line, and a fair hearing of the facts is last on the list of importance.. one consolation is that one may eventually get friends and family out of this demanding and destructive cult with patients and passage of time.. so what ideas would you like to pass on to readers?

what are some of subversive activities one can engage in while stuck in this nasty bit of mandatory corporation exercises of preaching, selling, and building?.

Separation of Powers

Well, if you mean "subversive" in the sense of undermining, then I would say the best thing you can do is absolutely nothing!

There is nothing more powerful than your absence, particularly if you are or were a mainstay of the congregation.

With your disappearance comes questions. With your continued disappearance comes conjecture and supposition.

Some, some will say what you will expect, "they were weak," "there was always something about that person," " they are materialistic."

But others, others will reflect on the reality of your absence particularly if you continue being the same old lovable person you are. They will wonder just why you disappeared. Yes, they may say or audibly agree with the conjecture and supposition, but inside, deep inside they are asking themselves questions, first about you....then about themselves.

Subversion at its best!

SOP

38

The experience that changed my life

by hijosdelawatch in

i have been lurking for a long time here and i think i'm prepared to speak about this experience openly.. .

i was born in a jw family and i grew up as the average jehovah's witness does.

even being very young, i helped with the territories and other work in the congregation.

Separation of Powers

I applaud your conviction. Many young people would have caved in to the pressure of the authority structure (i.e.the elders). I recognize how your mentality toward the blood doctrine (funny that it's a doctrine) changed. After the article in the May 1994 Awake! "Youths who put God First" I never looked at the blood doctrine the same again. And, I must add, I was livid and disgusted after the adjustments toward blood fractions were made and thought, "I wonder how many of those young people highlighted in that '94 Awake! would not have died if this change had happened BEFORE they were confronted with their decision?" A travesty! In fact, when you talk about bloodguilt....take a look at that magazine and tell me that someone isn't going to pay! These kids, kids not even old enough to drive, made a life and death decision based on a doctrine that has morphed to the point where in the near future (I hope) it will probably become a matter of conscience. I can simply imagine the coaxing and pressure they experienced and the fear that must have gripped them of being DF'd for accepting a blood transfusion.

By the way....Cool name!

SOP

8

DC "Jehovah's Witnesses have been banned"

by Separation of Powers in

several weeks ago, i had the opportunity to attend one of the dc.

the final drama was quite interesting as it depicted a "ban" on the jehovah's witness religion without an explanation as to why?

i'm sure many in the audience pondered on what they had learned from their previous studies i.e that babylon the great would fall and then that gog of magog would eventually turn his attention to the organization.

Separation of Powers

Several weeks ago, I had the opportunity to attend one of the DC. The final drama was quite interesting as it depicted a "ban" on the Jehovah's Witness religion without an explanation as to WHY? I'm sure many in the audience pondered on what they had learned from their previous studies i.e that Babylon the Great would fall and then that Gog of Magog would eventually turn his attention to the organization. However, that is not what the drama stated NOR did it infer that. It simply spoke of the "ban."

I found it funny (not silly funny but interesting funny) that they used the example of Esther as the basis for being "prepared." That, I must admit, was a bit of a stretch. Here we have a jewess abandon her belief system in marrying a heathen worshipper of Ahura Mazda (interesting that the drama used the name of the Persian god) and finds herself living within the harem. No one around her knows she's a jewess, obviously either scared or embarassed to say and not discussing her beliefs with others. Then, there is the whole retaliation aspect of the story where the Jews rise up to protect themselves and because they were SO succesful in vanquishing their enemies within the realm on THAT day, they even request another day to chase down those that got away to exterminate them! Definitely NOT the ideal story to apply to a modern day Christian.

In any event, I think the most interesting unanswered question in the drama is WHY are they banned? There are a myriad of scenarios other than the expected Wild Beast turning against the organization. It is not a stretch to expect that government will eventually crack down on religion, particularly as atheism continues to spread. But, what will be the cause of the "ban" if one does occur?

2

According to the understanding of parables in the "Insight Volume 1" book, is the hearer allowed interpretational freedom

by I_love_Jeff in

regarding illustrations (parables)-.

"because the hearer is left to apply the principles of the illustration to himself, it can carry to him a clear message of warning and rebuke, at the same time disarming him so that he has no ground to retaliate against the speaker.

in other words, as the saying goes, if the shoe fits, wear it.

Separation of Powers

The answer lies in this quote, " A lot of people out there pay good lip service to the idea of personal freedom...right up to the point that someone tries to do something that they don't personally approve of."

ADCMS says it well... Our opinion IS your opinion. that is...if you are a MATURE christian.

SOP

22

JW family trying to compensate for us being "spiritually weak" through increased activity

by cedars in

jw
friends

hi folks.

one of the things that has been most frustrating for my wife and i since beginning our fade as been the way certain family members have responded by ramping up their own involvement in the organization seemingly in a bizarre attempt to compensate for our lack of activity.. close relatives who were once doing precious little study and weren't going out of their way to attend meetings or go on the ministry are now studying every morning and busting a gut to attend "theocratic" arrangements.. it makes no sense to me, because salvation is supposed to be based on the beliefs and actions of each individual, not on those of his or her loved ones.

just what is the logic by which they think they can make things better by doing more themselves?.

Separation of Powers

Cedars,

I have noticed the same, both in my own situation and those that have been in the same position. It is akin to the human body favoring one body part over an injured body part. The guy whose left hip hurts so his right hip and leg have to compensate. That is the way it is for many family members. They recognize that one of the family is "failing" to live up to the "standard" so they feel they must compensate as they expect the eye of scrutiny will quickly peer in their direction. Additionally, it addresses the "holier-than-thou" aspect so prevalent among Witnesses and particularly prevalent among family members. Why? Because "he's gonna die at Armaggedon" is flying around in their brain and in order to solidify their own feeble expectation of reward and salvation they must appear to be doing more. Sorry...I am starting to rant.

SOP